And while their portrayals may or may not have always been respectful, intentional, progressive, I think that this idea that we do not always live within two spaces on a gender line has been persistent. I thought, if youre nonbinary, can you also be female? Lindsay very firmly knows who they are. ", "[As a model], I definitely don't want to tell trans people that they need to buy things in order to fully come into themselves as a trans person. Lets talk a little bit about definitions so that all of us can understand the parameters of what well be talking about today. My first day on set there was a Red Bull on Taylors desk, and we were like, Taylor wouldnt drink red bull. Asia always wanted to play the role of a boy, which came true when they were cast as a boy at the age of 11 in their school play. Search instead in Creative? So Ill give them both to you at the same time. What do you think about satire? Thats how the majority of Americans learn about the queer community. Having a deep voice but also being pink, being feminine and masculine at the same time, having a body shape that sort of defies what women or men are supposed to look like was really, really appealing to me. In John Wick: Chapter 3 Parabellum, currently in theaters, the actor plays The Adjudicator basically the head of international assassin HR enhancing the action franchise with a nonviolent, nonbinary, high-glamour authority figure. But now because of Billions people are recognizing me for Orange more. Sun: You are so gracious to lend your expertise to this topic. (Laughs.) Sun: Absolutely. So I wanted to start by asking you, where are you currently at in terms of how you decide to spend your time or energy educating people? I mean, I spent so many years not understanding my own gender identity, not having the language to talk about it, and not feeling safe in many environments to talk about it. You could have an animated cartoon and you couldnt have two men kissing, but you could have a rabbit kiss a man, and that wouldnt be considered this alarming thing that immediately needed to be cut or censored. Does that make sense? Does that make sense? Dillon is non-binary and uses singular they pronouns. I think its really easy to get distracted by whatever the current skirmish is when whatever the current skirmish is is always a distraction from whats at the base level. Before we get to our final two questions, I definitely wanted to make sure that we get to talking a little bit about your advocacy in the campaign to eliminate gendered award categories. And that seems really radical, tucked within that very problematic representation. Thats not something that they have to be. Its learned. Dont hate the player, hate the game, you know what I mean? Theres also the sci-fi of gender nonconforming, non-binary people arent human. I mean, obviously sci-fi is the place where you can explore, but when its the only place that you explore gender outside of cisgender identity, you literally dehumanize it. Sun: To lay the infrastructure, so to speak, for the framework for understanding that these are experiences that exist outside of the personal framework for the decision-makers. In As You Like It, I played the 90-year-old man. I carry that with me when Im out in the world and Im misgendered. Hes an asshole, hes vindictive, hes also a human being. Their role on Billions is the first gender non-binary character shown on American television. And so you have these sort of transgressive representations that come out of bigotry or thoughtlessness or a place of humor. Some of it feels a little weird. They essentially do the thing that we often see men, male heroes, in cartoons do. I went in, met with Chad [the John Wick director Chad Stahelski]. ", "I'm not [transitioning] to be interesting. Do you think thats what Alec Baldwin achieves on SNL?I havent been watching! At the beginning of this season, Taylor shows up in female drag. I dont know other than how do I know? Sun: Yes, thank you. Id like to talk about SNLs Pat. Asia Kate Dillon, an actor with non-binary gender identity, was approached for the role of The Adjudicator, who exercised admirable agency in their request to have their character also be non-binary. All rights reserved. If Im misgendered by someone who has just learned my pronouns and theyre obviously not doing it out of malice or to bully me, there is room for growth and learning, of course. People try with good intentions, maybe not, but they try it. And I applaud the Gotham Awards for abolishing their gendered acting categories. Thank you very much. But theres also something freeing about seeing a character who walks around and is comfortable with who they are. I think its the intent and the knowledge that goes into that and the level of sensitivity that actually ultimately matters. And if so, how should they do it over? But I watched SNL religiously. That doesnt make them a woman. Sun: Thats great. And because gender is a spectrum. And then I dont know exactly when it happened, but I think probably last year, I cant pinpoint it exactly, I really came to an understanding that the choice between actor and actress in the context of award shows where those words only mean man/woman, male/female gender or assigned sex, asking non-binary or intersex or gender nonconforming people to choose between those categories is a false choice. Asias other credits include John Wick 3: Parabellum, Orange Is the New Black and the animated series gen:LOCK. Asia Kate Dillon was born on November 15, 1984 in Ithaca, New York, USA. I love that character so, so much because one of the things that I really struggle with in terms of the way that non-binary is allowed to exist on screen is that most people chalk non-binary up to androgynous. I was having a conversation with a friend recently, and were both cis-gender but realizing a lot of how helpful it is to decouple these gendered characteristics. We have a gender binary-enforced society, and conversion therapy is meant to enforce that binary rather than the other way around. ", "Even right now, I have to filter what I say, because more often than not I've found that when I say the T-word, whatever sentence that is becomes a headliner. And so Im wondering if you wouldnt mind I know youve told this story before talking a little bit about what was your framework for understanding yourself prior, and then also, how do you currently identify? I think that non-binary identity is really kind of behind other LGBTQ communities on screen. And I dont know what anyones is until they tell me. That is certainly a change in the last couple of years and the more of that the better. ", "Non-binary is a term used by some people, myself included, who experience their gender identity as falling somewhere outside the boxes of man or woman," the actor explained. So have you felt excluded, then, by the womens movement, and specifically the Womens March? I could use a little help and understanding: Is that the same as or different from or similar to gender nonconforming or genderqueer or gender fluid? They are available to me. And Ive said this before there, there were a handful of times, particularly season two, season three, and there will occasionally still happen where theres some phraseology that comes out in a script or a certain word. If there had been someone like Taylor on TV when I was young, it wouldve meant a great deal, Dillon says. In one of their interviews, they revealed that they were currently dating a man, however, chose to not divulge any further details such as his name or the duration of their relationship. They have accumulated good wealth from their acting career. And so it is both a means to identify how I feel, how I experience my gender, and also a way of illustrating that the sex and gender binaries are not real. If I were being misgendered all the time and I didnt have the support of family, friends and co-workers, it would tear me down way more. Asia Kate Dillon was born on November 15, 1984 in Ithaca, New York, USA. They've spent time in prison on Netflix's Orange Is the New Black and. They are not trying to incorporate a character who still ascribes to a gender that people want to force on them. So I read that when you read the original character breakdown for Taylor Mason, specifically the description that the character was female non-binary, that helped you to put together some pieces for yourself. The Masons and these are just mild spoilers , Dillon: The Masons! Which show has better food? Has the German word 'einfhlung' tattooed on the left side of their neck, which translates to 'empathy'. And so for that not to be part of Taylors story on the show, to not have that special trope episode, its like, Thank goodness. The Hollywood Reporter is a part of Penske Media Corporation. Do they get to have a voice? Like when you go to fast fashion stores and youre like, Im going to get this gender neutral piece of clothing, its not a skirt. I can enter the actor category because the word actor is non-gendered and that works for me. Like you just said, the Gotham Awards just announced that theyre abolishing it, the MTV Movie and TV Awards, you were the very first person in 2017 to present a gender-neutral acting category, and I believe that both the Berlin and San Sebastian film festivals have gender-neutral categories. And I think this applies to lots of marginalized groups, like doing blackface was a big no-no a lot longer than doing cripface. I hope that wasnt too rambling. I dont know. And Im certainly happy as a light-skinned white person to play an antihero onscreen, because we have so many examples of white people as heroes. Talking about gender and gender representation is seen as a joke, and its not always treated with sensitivity. Asia Kate Dillon: When I looked up the word non-binary, it said, "An umbrella term for any number of gender identities falling outside the boxes of man and woman.". I think these are conversations that mixed-race families have too. There are certainly situations where Im not correcting people. The net worth of Asia Kate Dillon is estimated to be around $4 million while the figure on their annual income/salary is under review. Dillon: Thank you again for asking about it and letting me talk about it. And so, again, once somebody else opens that door, the door gets to open for other people. 'Billions' Star Asia Kate Dillon Proves There's No Such Thing as Menswear The actor who plays Taylor from 'Billions' wears a seamless mix of clothes (labels like "menswear" and "womenswear". I love that you work with a non-binary person. Of course, sometimes theres fried chicken, but both always tend to have quinoa salad, orzo salad, etc.. Orange tends to have more sweets, theres a little bit more sugar on the Orange set. That would mean that those characters are continuing to be written and that they are continuing to be integral to whatever story theyre a part of. It said, female, gender nonbinary. Lets distinguish todays conversation: Were going to be speaking of the identities that fall under the non-binary identity, but its different from transgender. Its not that we werent having conversations about gender. I know Im being really specific, but I think its okay. Im so grateful that neither Brandy nor Taylor wear any makeup although they do cover my neck tattoo for Taylor but its a real easy time in the [hair and makeup] chair for me. Apply Bed Bath and Beyond Coupon and save 25% Off your entire purchase, Target Circle: up to 50% Off with Target promo code, Shop the new Polo Ralph Lauren x ASOS Exclusive Collection from $99, Michael Kors Promo Code: sign up for KORSVIP + Get 10% Off on first order, 2023 Cond Nast. You know its interesting that people think that pants are masculine. Are these more current animated series more intentional on the parts of their creators? Sun: That means a lot to me. Its about changing and evolving the material that is created within quote-unquote Hollywood.. Asia made their television show debut as the bald girl on the comedy-drama series Younger in 2015. People keep talking about the niceness of Ted Lasso, but thats because were seeing men be nice, and thats considered radical. And sex is not a binary either. These are characters that come with very, very specific personality traits, physical traits. Not everyone identifies within the binary. These are excerpts from the conversation. And by doing that Im inherently uplifting and supporting myself. Dillons Billions character of Taylor identifies as nonbinary as well a point that caused Dillon to weep with joy upon first reading the script. The things that I've had to do medically to my body don't define me. Good Omens is a really great example. Asia Kate Dillon is back as Taylor Mason on Showtime's hit series "Billions" and the actor says the remainder of season 5 is going to be wild. Find Asia kate dillon stock images in HD and millions of other royalty-free stock photos, illustrations and vectors in the Shutterstock collection. Baby representation on TV has been a really interesting space in animation and live action. And more importantly, whats the significance of having characters like the guys its mostly guys the characters at Axe Capital be able to normalize gender fluidity acceptance in this way? Like, why are you all so obsessed with Pats gender? I think thats honestly one of the most radical things about Ted Lasso. Last Call with Carson Daly (2002-2019) Actress Abigail Spencer ( The Sweet Life (2016) and Timeless (2016)); actress Asia Kate Dillon ( Billions (2016)); band Partybaby perform. And what kinds of ongoing collaborations do you have with discussing this aspect of Taylors character and their storylines? The 'Billions' actor, Asia Kate Dillon, talks about their character's climb to the billion-dollar club, losing Axe, and taking on a new mentorship role. It's a good start. But tell me a little bit about the existence of non-binary representations of color. And if we are trying to award art that is representational of everyone, then we need to be representing everyone, and abolishing gendered awards is one part of the change that needs to happen., Elsewhere in the show, THR associate editor Abbey White discusses the genres where gender exploration has taken place the most: science fiction and, perhaps surprisingly, animation. Sun: Im glad you brought that up. ", "Coming out is HARD (and kinda bs). Like when that happens, we dont see Taylor being cut down by that, it just reveals that the person whos doing it is horrible. There is no question about it; everybody else around adjusts. But because the character I play is a neo-Nazi and white supremacist, people did not approach me on the street or say, Hey, oh my God, I like your character. [laughs] Occasionally I could tell people would recognize me and not say anything. And theres all these different sorts of weird characters. And if Taylor, if this fictional character can exist in this fictional world and has been brave enough to get up and get dressed and go out there into the world and be who they really are, then I can too. The clothes are almost all vintage Thierry Mugler. I think they were intending Pat to be the butt of the joke, but I would love to see a 21st century reinterpretation where I feel like you could keep the premise almost identical and youre just adjusting the frame so that the butt of the joke becomes society and the need to put Pat into a binary framework. And Ive learned that sometimes you think theres going to be food when you get to set, and there isnt. [laughs] As Nina Simone said, its an artists job to reflect society. I've dealt with this feeling my entire life, and I know that I'm a woman deep down. I don't feel like there was a mistake made. There are certainly a lot of errors. Theres a sweet, beautiful song. No, I just had a lot of demons back then. My mom was an SNL hound. We're human beings, and this is a human life. Asia Kate Dillon attends the Season 5 celebration of "Orange is the New Black" at Catch, June 9, 2017, in N.Y. Taylor Hill/FilmMagic via Getty Images, FILE Dillon: I identify as non-binary. ", "There was a physical identity of what people perceived as 'boy,' but that's not how I was feeling inside. Born Name That doesnt mean you should assume that persons gender identity. Thats not to say that characters before who had storylines about changing genders or being forced to identify as a gender that they dont identify with arent a part of this conversation. Non-binary. When did you start to get recognized as an actor?I started to get recognized when my season of Orange came out. So, Abbey, thank you for helping expand my understanding of this. And thats something thats kind of imposed on children. Its called Mirror Fire productions. Im starting to see a few high-profile celebrities come out as non-binary. Thats awesome. I remember always being drawn to the roles that had been written for men. Dillon, who uses the singular pronoun "they" for identification, spoke . Im just here to dole out punishment and go on with my day.. It is something that I must cultivate and it is something that I must consciously do or it will go away. And so its really interesting to see some cool stuff thats happening in animation, very specifically in childrens animation, thats breaking that down and arguably at the forefront of our conversations about non-binary identity and gender non-conforming identities. And if every character I played from now until I die onscreen or on the stage was non-binary, that would be awesome. And the more we talk about it, the more we can promote the understanding. Sun: Lets go ahead and jump in then, since you brought up animation. I think that non-binary identity is still sort of fresh for much of the industry. I understand because so much of our world is basically coded through this very firm gender binary. Dillon: The aspect of gender identity, specifically? It was just not a thing. Adult animation has had gay, trans, non-binary characters. The level of sensitivity with which those characters have been afforded, the level of humanity that they have been afforded, is not anywhere near what it is now. And I think that writers, in particular TV and film writers, have leaned on sci-fi because its a lot easier to sell the idea that your alien doesnt have a gender, right? So in that sense, I think expanding the definition of what a woman is is great for people who identify as women and want to work at expanding that definition for themselves and the world at large. Im not an actor, I think asking a non-binary actor about this and about their own experience is very interesting, but Ive talked to some voice actors, some actors, and theyre still existing in the binary. Its time to be brave. And if Taylor, if this fictional character can exist in this fictional world and has been brave enough to get up and get dressed and go out there into the world and be who they really are, then I can too. To see a trans body in this ideal spaceon a cover, in an adthese are spaces that have immense cultural power to dictate what is beautiful, what is glamorous, what is aspirational, what is sexy, what is clean. Actor Asia Kate Dillon brought Brandy to life and, over the course of the show, portrayed a character that couldn't be further from their real . I knew it would be incredibly impactful. Taylors gender identity doesnt get in the way of his ultimate goal. Like, what if I had to be in a place where my gender didnt align with something that somebody could immediately clock? Were all ignorant of what were ignorant of until were not. They have a mild social media following with more than 150k followers on Instagram and more than 50k followers on Twitter. What is shown in the story is you dont know that persons gender, and hopefully the lesson is, Dont assume. Dont assume someones gender just because someone is wearing makeup or dressed in historically feminine attire, whatever that means. Particularly living in a patriarchy where its really useful to decouple, like why does this trait get to be assigned as masculine? The actor who plays Taylor from Billions wears a seamless mix of clothes (labels like menswear and womenswear need not apply) and talks Axe Capital, Trump, and playing a white supremacist. Subscribe for full access to The Hollywood Reporter. Read on for our chat about everything from whether Alec Baldwin does a good Trump impression to what kind of person even drinks Red Bull to the backstory on that game-changing role as Taylor. Theyre little, theyre super cute and their storyline is basically about how one helps the other feel better but in the process sort of confesses their love for the other one. Pats gender was literally the running joke. To be here. Prior to encountering the character breakdown for Taylor, I had been experimenting with removing she/her pronouns from online bio materials and just using my name, but frankly, the only trans people that I had been aware of prior to encountering Taylor had undergone some sort of either medical or physical change, whether it was taking hormones or some kind of surgery so that they could live fully as themselves in their identity.